Am I a Pansy

Who else has wondered whatever happened to Internet Marketing integrity?

I started to call this article “The Good, The Bad and The Ugly Internet Marketers” and then decided against it because it also implies negative connotations against internet marketers.

The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Internet MarketersRead on to see my views on negative comments….

If you follow Ryan Healy.com (who’s on my list of favorites) you’ll see that he called attention to a storm in the internet marketing world when he published an article called Internet Marketing on Life Support.

In the article he refers to some of the “bad”  or dishonest internet marketers and their practices that have surfaced and been brought to light recently  (It almost always happen sooner or later, especially if you’re a public figure).

On Dec 31, 2009 another of my friends, Fred Black, wrote a post called  Internet Business Ethics 101.

In this article Fred describes his misfortunes with Eric Graham or “The Conversion Doctor”.

According to both Ryan and Fred (and others) Eric has labeled himself as “the Ugly” among internet marketers because of some bad internet business practices.

Negative or Positive?

I’ve tried to stay neutral on the subject of the bad and the ugly internet marketers because one of the policies that I’ve made for this blog is to never use it for negative purposes. I won’t even do it in the comment section.

I usually try and turn anything negative into something positive. Here’s a case in point from the article The Art of Persuasion – Copywriting or Preaching? where I responded to a person who commented on some of the practices of Joel Osteen, the pastor of the largest church in the United States:

Jeff,
You’ve stated a mouthful. I thought I was being brave to write a post that is a little bit controversial.

I try not to say anything negative about anybody on this blog so I can’t comment on the big named preachers and public speakers other than to say that they are very gifted speakers and our gifts can be used either positively or negatively.

I do want to congratulate you on your persuasions techniques. You definitely know what point you want to get across.

Do you see what I mean about turning a negative into a positive?. In fact, I take this to the extreme. If it’s raining outside and someone complains about it I’ll say, “Yes but the plants love it” or “This is a good opportunity to catch up on some sleep or work indoors”.

You get the picture. I try and stay away from negative words.

But What IF Someone Does You Wrong?

But what should you do if someone does you wrong? Should you keep quite because you want only positive words to come out of your mouth?

What do you think?

What would you say if I told you that someone has actually wronged me and I kept quite about it when I had the opportunity to side up with people who are actually my friends?

I Got Taken

Fred Black expressed his opinion when he stated his side of his experience with Eric Graham.

Was he right to tell about his experiences?  After all, It’s his blog, He can use it however he wants.

I have a confession to make. I got taken and I didn’t speak up.(I’m sorry for not speaking up sooner Fred)

Fred wasn’t the only one  who Eric Graham didn’t deliver on.

You see, I joined Eric Graham’s $49 a month membership club. The first month was fine but the second month there was no new content added and when I wrote Eric he didn’t respond. After quite a few emails he finally responded saying he was fixing the problem. After another month or so I canceled the membership by manually removing my credit card information. I  got taken for $150 which is not much compared to what Fred and others have lost.

Eric Graham puts out excellent material. In fact, you can find some excellent free material on his website telling you how to make website conversions…

There I go again, turning negative circumstances into positive statements. OK, read his materials but just don’t buy anything from him or you might get taken.

Here’s my question:

Am I a pansy?

Should I have spoken out sooner?

Or.. Should I keep up the policy of not saying anything negative on this blog?

You’re the reader, you tell me. What do you think?

I do have to leave you with one more question:

If a women is raped or a child is abused should they keep silent because they want to avoid the shame and publicity even though they are not to blame? (perhaps that has nothing to do with this article)

I’ve focused on the bad and ugly of internet marketers. OK, let’s turn this into something positive. In my next article I’ll give you My List of GOOD Internet Marketers. But be warned, having a list, even if it’s a list of good guys, can be DANGEROUS.

p.s. Regarding Eric Graham. It is important for any mature person to recognize that we hate the sin, not the sinner.  I do not dislike Eric, I just don’t like his unethical business practices.  Although I’ve  brought attention to Eric, I agree with Michel Fortin who wrote an excellent article On Not Playing The Blame Game. There is a balance in all things. In this case I felt it necessary to mention a name.

p.s.s. It’s ok to tell me I’m a pansy (I get called a gringo all the time) just be sure and tell me why you think I’m one, or was one because I did “fess up”.

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{ 11 comments… read them below or add one }

Fred Black January 23, 2010 at 9:51 pm

Greg…
I’m sorry you got taken… that makes me mad. It makes me mad that I lead you to that.

Thanks for your comments.

I think we have a moral obligation to let others know the good, the bad, and the ugly – it’s too easy in the “wild west” of the internet for predators to thrive. You can do it nice if you want to (I don’t necessarily want to… I tend to infer what I mean vs. just saying it outright!).

Fred
Fred Black´s last blog ..New Layout My ComLuv Profile

Greg Nemer January 24, 2010 at 7:28 am

No Fred,

I’m sorry for not coming forward sooner and backing you up.

When I read Eric’s testimony on Ryans’s blog I realized that, although he had a long eloquent account of the circumstances and his words were glossy, people needed to know that this wasn’t just one account. (Of course you reveal more testimonies in your article).

What if they were actually convinced by his words?

Actions speak louder than words. That’s why I wrote this testimony. To reveal a pattern.

I’m behind you. And, at least in this account, I’m no longer a pansy.

Ryan Healy January 24, 2010 at 11:09 am

Greg,

I certainly don’t think you’re a pansy. And I think it’s beneficial to focus on the positive as much as possible. “Whatever is good…” etc.

Here’s the thing: I’ve lost money with different people before. When it’s a small amount, it’s easy to overlook it and move on. And, at the time, your personal experience with Eric didn’t necessarily point to a larger pattern of negligence.

But when you lose a large amount of money (as Fred did)… and you start doing research… and you discover that there is a larger problem… then I feel that is the point where you have to decide whether you’re going to go public or not.

I actually got taken in by James Brausch for a while. I signed up for his mentoring program. At first, he was helpful. But then his responses to my questions became condescending and not very helpful at all.

Anyway, I didn’t bother writing about that experience for two reasons:

1. James was already digging himself a hole to China without my help. (Said another way, the number of negative posts online about James Brausch were multiplying quickly.)

2. James is a master of disinformation. On one blog, he must have pretended to be 5 or 10 different people, all saying both good and bad things about himself. (The blog owner actually had to shut down the comments because the disinformation was getting so out of control.)

Anyway: I didn’t want to have to deal with that kind of vindictive backlash. (Although now that I think about it, coming out publicly against such a person might be easier by simply turning off the comments on that particular post.)

Ultimately, it’s really a matter of personal conviction. And I respect a person’s decision one way or the other. :-)

-Ryan M. Healy
Ryan Healy´s last blog ..Nominate Your Favorite Internet Marketer My ComLuv Profile

Jeremy Reeves January 24, 2010 at 12:06 pm

The exact same thing happened to me with Eric’s $49/month membership.

And I had the same stance as you on the deal – he puts on great content and I’ll continue to follow his content and respect his knowledge…just wouldn’t sign up for a membership program of his again!

My guess is that the membership either wasn’t bringing in enough money to give it attention, or he was focusing on other things and let it fall to the waist-side.

Everyone screws up so I wouldn’t say I’m “against” him or anything like that – plus I believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance…I’d just be much more cautious of buying things from him in the future :)

Or maybe I just forgive people too easily!

Jeremy Reeves

Greg Nemer January 24, 2010 at 6:39 pm

It took me a while to decide that I would come out and publicly make known what happened.

There are more reasons for this other than just being negative.
Like the “What ifs“-
But as you can see I came up with my own answers…

What if Eric responds and we get into a battle of words-. Although most Americans seem to be more and more confrontational, The easy road is to avoid confrontations. The easy way is not always the best way.
What if I get criticized for “criticizing”- Most of the greatest leaders are criticized, no matter how good their intentions are.
What if Eric repents and asks for forgiveness- That’s an easy one. I have no problem with forgiving but actions have to back up words. I’m not so concerned about myself, but I would like to see Fred get a refund since it involved a lot of money, time and frustration.

and the greatest fear….
What if I’m wrong- O.k. what if I’m wrong, we learn from our mistakes and the next time will be different (so far I don’t think I’m wrong)

I too respect your decisions Ryan, and I’m not really sure if I’d want to be in your shoes. It requires a lot of wisdom to respond to the flurry of comments on you blog. Of course, I think you know that and you are handling things well.
I do wonder, would you do things differently if you had a chance to do it all over again?

Greg Nemer January 24, 2010 at 7:00 pm

Ha Jeremy .. I think you may have the same problem as me…
You’re a “nice guy”!

I agree with you that we should forgive. I’m even like you in that I can easily forget (perhaps because I have a bad memory).

You and I both certainly don’t have that problem since it was for a small amount. But it’s a lot harder to forgive when its a larger amount (like Fred)

It does make you feel better when you realize that you’re not the only one that got taken.
However, It still doesn’t justify the unethical conduct.

The correct action for Eric should have been to inform us that he would no longer be updating the program instead of letting the credit cards be charged month after month without answering emails. An easy way of canceling would have been really appreciated. Plus either a refund or a nice compensation for the funds received- either delivering on the promises or providing another product or service value of equal or greater value.

He did screw up, most all of us are given a 2nd chance, but that NEVER means that we are justified in our wrongdoings.

I’m thinking that maybe we are both giving the wrong impression of letting the public know that Eric delivers great materials. Some of the greatest outlaws are very intelligent, posses great talents and sometimes even help out charities, but that doesn’t mean that we should honor them.
I know that you’re not doing that, neither am I, but maybe we should say…. “Don’t even visit his site” Even if nobody ever purchased from him again, he could still monetize from the high amount of traffic through ads.

Keith J - Business Marketing January 26, 2010 at 11:10 am

Nope not a “Pansy” at all…Sometimes the best disinfectant is sunlight…if you catch my drift. Now to assume that a persons intent was specifically to take your money and run may need to have the context and details filled in to get a true understand to what really transpired which would make Mr. Graham give the poor customer service and lack of delivery of content that was contracted for….Not sure why anyone would deliberately do this knowing that everyone has a blog and can easily post the negative experiences…

Greg Nemer January 26, 2010 at 11:50 am

Kieth,
I really don’t think that Eric planned on taking me up front. Like Jeremy commented, “He probably got sidetracked”. (He should have informed us)

I’m always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt and I really do wish the very best for Mr. Graham. The problem is the pattern that has been disclosed. This has not just happened with me but with many others. See Fred’s post and read all the people that got taken- http://www.pqinternet.com/220.htm

We don’t know the motives, we only know the outcome and repeated offenses.

There’s always hope! Maybe one day he’ll make it up to those people who really got hurt….

Call me a dreamer if you want to :)

Hans January 28, 2010 at 1:27 pm

Dear Greg,

Forgive me but you really are a pansy. *Ouch*!

Show some courage and tell the truth. Your concerns are trivial. The more you share, the more we learn. Take care of us, your loyal readers.

– Hans

Greg Nemer January 28, 2010 at 1:37 pm

Hans,

Thanks for being honest!

And yes… My readers are first. I desire to provide the content that you all want.

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